Разход на Приус 3

[Not_active_user_1]

Не е важно кой е открил топлата вода, а кой е пуснал да тече по чешмите.

[Instruktor59@yahoo.com]

Хм, колеги, както обикновено, писането се разшири тематично. Това не е много по правилата на форумното общуване и лесно го затруднява, но, такива сме си...
Според мен е доста смешно да обсъждаме дали е добра концепцията за задвижване на Приус или не, поне по следните причини:
1. Вече успешно се продават три поколения Приус.
2. Освен Приус, Тойота и все повече други производители пускат на пазара задвижвания, различни от класиката ДВГ с бензин/нафта/газ, които се използват не само при "коли за града".
3. Класическият ДВГ с невероятно смешните му 17-20% КПД е такава технологична, финансова и екологична (най-вече където има струпвания) отживелица, че е срам за човечеството.

Според мен хибридното задвижване не е крайно решение, но е важна, неизбежна стъпка в правилната посока. Който не вярва, да пита примерно гражданите на щат Калифорния в САЩ... Вярно е, че за сега не мога да си го позволя, но високата цена е присъща на всяко ново нещо.
Накрая, разбира се, че всеки има право на предпочитания и сам решава за какво си харчи парите. Но ако някой не харесва обсъждането качествата на хибридната технология, да не чете и да не пише...

[gh0s7r1d3r]

И аз съм метнал око на една тесличка, ама кисело гроздето още

[didak]

И аз съм метнал око на една тесличка, ама кисело гроздето още

След време ще имаш по-голям избор - нов хибриден Ярис или 2-3 годишен хибриден Аурис.
Не вярвам хибридната технология да развали иначе здравия Ярис, а каква по-градска кола от него.
Цената му като нов вероятно ще е около 2-3 годишен Приус.

[jim_beam]

разрових се малко по въпроса оборудване на хибрид с допълнителни батерии и се оказа,че разноските не са толкова драматични.
тук наблизо има една фирма,която предлага цялата система за около 4500 евро с вкл. монтаж и регистрация,като предлага удължаване на гаранцията на хибр.част до 200к км!в случая става въпрос за приус,но подготвят нещата и за лексус ст и аурис.тоя пич лично е изпробвал на собствения си приус2 системата,поръчана от щатите.вижте сами>

http://www.waffenschmiede.at/home/de/pl ... umbau.html



пс> случайно открих инфото в немския приус-форум,реалния разход с този пакет пада на 2-2.5л,като в града до 20-25км е 0!

ето фирмата производител в щатите>
http://www.enginer.us/

[mitkoa]

Ако съм те разбрал правилно, то постановката е следната:
Купуваш хибрид, караш го 10 год и 200 000 км.Следва ремонт/обслужване на хибриднита система за 9000 лв?
Как да не е драматична цената.Да вложиш 9000 лв в 10 год автомобил и то това само за 1 компонент от автомобила.Останалите неща - скорости, окачване и т.н са си отделно на ръка....
При тази цена и за батерии ми става интересно и вторичния пазар как ще е.Обезценката трябва да е безумна.

[Scott]

...Обезценката трябва да е безумна.

Ама пък до тогава разхода ти е бил 2л/100км или пък ако караш само по 25км на ден - 0. Жива далаера, не ли?

[gh0s7r1d3r]

Приус 2 плъг ин ли е? В смисъл зарежда ли се в контакта?

Иначе, обезценяването е на лице - 2006-2007-ма година са по 15-17 к лв.

[jim_beam]

mitkoa не си разбрал правилно!
човека казва следното>
ако се гледа само чисто финансово никоя нова кола не е рентабилна,което принципно е така.от негова гледна точка оптимално би било да се купи 5-7г приус дори на над 100к и да се оборудва с пакета,тогава сметката е горе-долу добра.разбира се цялата тая работа си струва,ако наистина колата ще се кара поне около 5г и то много.в европа има доста такива оем таксита на по 500-600к,т.е. проверено е практически,че модела е надежден.освен това най-големия потенциал на плъгина е в града,значи е интересен предимно там.и ако ще гори даже 3-4 на 100 пак ще е далеч по-добре от lpg-cng,понеже пакета е напълно без всякакви допълнителни сервизни разноски.
в щатите е 3500$ според мен винаги си струва.

Приус 2 плъг ин ли е? В смисъл зарежда ли се в контакта?

...

да,плъг ин става системата!само не разбрах дали бенз.мотор зарежда и допълнителния модул.


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Die Eckdaten des Plug-In Hybrid powered by Enginer Kits?

günstigster Umbau am Markt mit ca. 4500€ inkl. Einbau und Typisierung (offizieller Preis in Kürze verfügbar)



4kWh Zusatzbatterien, Li-Ion-Technologie



6 Stunden Ladedauer an Haushaltssteckdose 220V


Reichweite ca. 25km rein elektrisch*


Reichweite ca. 50km im Hybridbetrieb, Benzinverbrauch 1,5-3L /100km im Stadtverkehr


alle Sicherheitsfunktionen des HSD Systems von Toyota bleiben erhalten


Kit kann jederzeit an und abgeschaltet werden


Kofferraum bleibt in vollem Umfang erhalten


Ladetechnik komplett in das Edelstahlgehäuse integriert
durch die geringe Ladungsaufnahme ist das Laden an der Haushaltssteckdose möglich





*im EV Modus für Prius 2, bei maximal 48km/h Höchstgeschwindigkeit und entsprechender Fahrweise, ebenes Gelände ohne große Steigungen.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

[Scott]

!само не разбрах дали бенз.мотор зарежда и допълнителния модул....

Не, допълнителния модул е на различно напрежение и е включен само през DC/DC преобразувател към оригиналната батерия - има схема на стр. 17 в инсталационната брошура:
http://www.enginer.us/img/Enginer%20PHE ... 0Prius.pdf
Въобще, тая китайска батерия не бих си я сложил ако имах Приус.

Да направим една проста сметка: имаме Приус и го конвертираме в плъг-ин за 4500 еуро. караме по 25 км на ден само градско и само на батерии. Зареждаме всяка вечер за около 0.5 еуро - приемам цена от 10 цента на kWh. Значи за една година сме минали 365 х 25км = 9125км и похарчили за 'гориво' само 365 х 0.5 = 182.5 еуро. Съседа с неконвертиран Приус 3 за същото време при разход от 5л/100км и същия пробег е похарчил 365 х 1.5 = 547.5 еуро (приемам 1 л бензин за 1.5 еуро). Понеже ние сме назад 4500 еуро от началото, сметките ще ни се изравнят къде на 12-тата година
Ако се минава повече километри на ден ще се включва и двигателя и сметките стават много сложни, но при всички положения възвращаемост на инвестицията от 4500 еуро не трябва да се очаква преди 5-6-та година, защото плъг-ин конверсията дава реална икономия в тези първи 25 км, после е пропорционално както и в сайта е казано - за 50км дневно разхода ще е към 3л/100км и т.н. Това е като параграф 22 - за да има реална икономия трябва да се кара само на електричество, а за да се кара само на електричество, трябва пробега да е малък и срока за избиване на инвестицията голям.[/url]

[didak]

Scot, батериите нямат ли определен брой цикли разряд/заряд?
На лаптопа ми /LiIon/, ако не се лъжа са 300.
В сметките ти има и по-икономичен вариант - ако си на един заряд разстояние до работа, зареждаш "служебен" ток през деня и отново вкъщи, т.е. минаваш 2 пъти повече за същите пари

[E60_Power]

Преди да си правите тънки сметки за това колко икономична е тази "кола", прочетете част от мненията на собственици на Приус, защото изобщо не става дума за живот на батерията от 8-10 години, а много по-малко. Поствам малко мнения на "щастливи" собственици на тоя "шедьовър" на автомобилостроенето. Първите коментари са от преди 4-5 години.


"Lately my 6 month old Prius intermittently refuses to start. Press the Power button and the LED display comes up weakly and no reponse from the shifter. So, I hit the Power off and on a couple of times (a.k.a reboot) and it responds. This has happened 3 times in the last week. It's going in for service next week."


"my 05 prius has been doing this intermitant no start for the past year. we have taken it to the local dealer and did all the battery checks and could find nothing wrong. this problem has occurred again, i am writing this as i am waiting for the tow truck. i am going to get it towed "as is" so that they might be able to figure something out"


"My 2005 Prius has same problem, intermittently refuses to start. Press the Power button and the LED display comes up no response from the shifter. I hit the Power off and on a couple of times and it responds. This has happened 2 times in the last week. Please let me know how you fixed the problem last time. Thanks!"


"DOCUMENT THIS PROBLEMS,
AND TELL TOYOTA TO GIVE YOU A NEW ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BECAUSE ONECE THE WARRANTY IS OVER, YOU WILL HAVE TO SELL YOUR KIDNEYS TO FIX THAT CAR.
IT'S NOT THE TYPE OF CAR YOU CAN TAKE TO ANY AUTO MECHANIC."


"Have an '05 Prius...5 no start episodes, and twice to the dealer...everything checks out.
Seems to have something to do with wife sitting in car during lunch, but she swears she shuts everything off.
Will try to replace battery with upgrade kit.
Bought the extended warranty, but it has been no help!!"


"I think i have this brake pedal problem, i tried to explain this switch in the brake pedal to my husband, which is what i suspected was malfunctioning and he said i was crazy and it was just for breaking. Of course the crooks at the Toyota dealer said it was fine, I have an extended 100,000 warranty but i still have a start issue which begins when u push on the break pedal"


"I have a 2004 Prius and the same start problem. Curiously, it happens every time after taking a nap during lunch time. I turn the car off. I open and close the door to make sure lights are all off. Then I take a nap. The car would not start. I recently realized that if I have the AAA truck give me a jump start the car works just fine after that, as if nothing had occurred (unfortunately, the prior week I had to tow it away and it cost me $100.00 -- then I realized I didn't need to have it towed). The battery seems to be working just fine. I had the car checked at the dealership twice now, and they find no problem with it. I am very frustrated!"


"I have a 2001 Toyota Prius.
It turns on, the engine runs for about 5 seconds, then the engine shakes and dies, and the brake warning light comes on.
It runs fine and suddenly dies, so I am quite certain that it is an electrical problem. I plan on checking the fuses this afternoon after I eat.
I have had numerous problems with my car, including the legendary 12V battery dilemma, which I remedied with a quick battery release to easily remove the battery if I know that I won't be using the car."


"2004 Prius stalling and not starting problem and we were told by the Toyota dealer it was our "driving habits" and encouraged to buy a new gas only vehicle (conveniently on sale at the dealers). The service dept had load tested the 12V battery on 3 occasions - claiming"no problem". However, independent checks (3) revealed a dead battery. Replaced the dead 12V with a new Optima and the car not only has no more problems - it is getting better gas mileage..and our "lazY" garage door opener now is quickly on task.
WHY DOESN'T TOYOTA TELL THEIR SERVICE DEPTS. THAT BATTERy CELLS BECOME WEAK AFTER ALMOST 5 YEARS!!!"


"I just came back from the dealership. This problem has happened twice in the past week.
Now at least I know I am not crazy, and the dealer does not have a clue. My car is a 2005 as well. The power just locks up and you can not turn it on or off. They told me to get out of the car and star over. I was also asked if I am wearing different shoes, (hah) sure that effects the engine, and do I put my foot on the brake whenI start---, I've only had the car for 33,000 miles 3.5 years -- maybe I don't know how o start it."


"I have a 2008 Prius. This has happened to me now for the 3rd time - first 2 times, Dealer said battery was defective, 3rd time, they tell me "there is nothing wrong with the car". I have had Toyota's all my life and loved them, but am thinking of filing a Lemon Law issue on this one if it happens a 4th time. AAA is getting tired of coming to jump start my car!"


"I have a very low mileage 2005 Prius. I can't leave it undriven for more that a few days without the auxiliary battery going dead. It starts OK with a jump. The first time it did this I took it to the dealer -- who said that there was no problem. I found this site searching for a way to upgrade the puny auxiliary battery. After reading all the other posts, I think I will take the car to an independent auto mechanic to see if I just need a new battery and/or if I can put a more robust battery in it."


"I may be having a little start up problem. It has happened to me twice. Its a 2008 Prius, 13,000 miles.
In extreme cold weather, like today about 20F and the other time it was about 30F and very windy.
When I start up the car, I get something like a buzzing sound as the ICE tries to kick in."


"I just purchased a 2007 Prius 1 month ago. Can you believe that the battery has died already after 1 week of not driving it? I'm also thinking of filing a Lemon Law complaint."


"My 2007 Prius intermitently fails on power up. Can put in gear and red warning triangle is on. After pushing power of 4-5 times it will power down. 2nd try turning on always works."


"i have a 2007 prius (purchased 1 year old) that would not start after not driving for a week or so. My husband jump started it and moved it in the driveway but did not drive it 20 minutes (like I told him to ) to recharge the battery. Of course 20-30 minutes later went to leave and it would not start again. Tried to jump start again, initially interior lights came on but could not get the engine to start or shift gears. Now we get nothing...Anyone have any suggestions...My husband hates these "new fangled" cars but I love my Prius til now..."


"I have a 2009 Prius that I have had to have AAA jumpstart 4 times since I bought it in May 2009 (that's 13 months). Took it to the local Toyota dealership, they tested the battery, said it tested fine and there was nothing they could do, end of story. Pissed me off! They of course suggested that maybe I left the lights on? I told them I'm not an idiot!! You'd think after all the bad press Toyota has had they'd bend over backwards to make their customers happy. I told them next time I'm buying a Honda. So frustrating!!!"


"I own a 2007 Toyota Prius. I tried to start the car. Every single light came flashing on the car, I couldn't put the car in Drive or Reverse. Also the start button was on red and not green. Anybody have any ideas what the problem might be?"


"I have had problems with my Prius 2007 starting and just recently figured out that it is something with the parking brake. I pupm the brake pedal until it feels stiff and then it starts. Just an FYI."


"I am having the same problem with my 2007 Prius. Last week the car wouldn't start after hitting the power button, however the display lights on the dash were bright as well as the headlights and dome lights, however "ready" never showed up. I had it towed in to the dealership where they ran tests and found the auxiliary battery fully charged, and electrical checked out. The same problem happened again today. This time, I put the car in neutral and then in park. "ready then showed up, the dash lights went out and the worked. I am again calling the dealership to log the complaint. Any ideas out there?"


"My Mom & Dad just bought a 2010 Prius and it is driving us nuts. Several times we have gotten in and pushed the start button only to have the front end shake violently like the motor mounts are broken. Toyota has had the car for several days and have not been able to duplicate the problem and say there is nothing wrong with the car. We are getting the car back tomorrow and if it happens again I'm afraid of what my 83 & 85 yr. parents might do and or say when it is taken in for the third time. Anyone have any suggestions?"


"2007 Prius 12v battery problem - same as those listed above - lights come on with red warning triangle but can't get in gear. After restarting several times, I was able to get a response. A month ago, I took it to dealer for the routine check-up and oil change and advised them about the starting problem. They told me everything checked out. This is winter, and eventually the car totally died and had to be jumped started every time, so I went back to the dealer. I have been advised that I need a new battery - the warranty is expired and the extended service plan (yeah now I know it was stupid!) does NOT cover batteries!"


"My 2007 Prius doesn't start in the winter after leaving it for two to three days. No lights, nothing. I have had the battery changed and it still doesn't start after being left for a few days. Toyota service say they can't find anything wrong?!"


"GD.........I also have a 2009 Prius.. It has refused to start twice in the last four weeks. This is after driving to my grand daughters school to pick them up so the car has only been sitting for 10 minutes. The first time everything on the display was flashing at me. AAA was able to get it started. We took it straight to the dealership and they said they couldn't find anything wrong with it. It happened again yesterday and again AAA got it started. This time the dealer said the battery failed the load test. The good news is that they replaced the battery with no cost to us. I sure hope this solves the problem. I hate feeling like I have an unreliable car. It only has 9600 miles on it."


"2010 Prius ... 742 miles. Our dealer has had the car three times since we bought it Jan 7, 2011.
Same starting problem ... same result ... battery OK ... nothing wrong. They did authorize a rental ... have had the car now for over a week ... it FINALLY misbehaved for them, and they contacted Toyota direct and were told to "check under the seat for the 3-wire USB interface. Replace it." They got the part today ... and we are picking up the car tomorrow. IF this happens again .. we are going right to the Ohio Lemon Law. They have tested the battery with a load test ... tested OK. Tried to find a "ghost draw" of power ... did not find any load loss. We have had the warning triangle, the flashing display panel, the P for parking warning on level ground ... etc. We have had 'em all .... and have had the same query from the service folks ... "Did you start it properly ?? Are you sure you didn't leave the light on ?? etc."
(We have a 97 VW Passat diesel with 253,000 miles on it, and have never had a starting problem. Too bad diesel in Ohio is right at $3.39 a gallon.)
Wish us luck tomorrow."


"I just tried getting in my 2006 Prius and nothing happened. I had to resort to using the key to actually get in the car, and when I pushed the button to try and start it, nothing happened. Nothing is happening at all. No lights turn on, no sounds, nothing. I'm scared, really scared. What am I supposed to do? It won't even lock itself when I push the button, I had to do it myself.
I haven't driven it for about five days, is that the problem? Did the battery die? If that's the case, how do I make it work?"


"I have 2008 prius, does not star,battery seems to ok, a/c working, plenty of light, month ago mechanic said need to change transaxel(transmission). I am frustrated."


"Prius 2009: Same problem: triangle of death occur and the transmission P is abnormal and we have to park on level ground. The car is driven everyday and parked on flat surfaces."


"I have a 2011 Prius with 6000 miles on it. Around 4 times now it has refused to go to ready after pushing the power button, one time it took about 15 minutes and numerous tries before it finally worked. I took it to the Toyota dealer and they decided I was not pushing on the brake pedal hard enough (come on!) A few days ago it did it again, I got my small HD camcorder out and recorded it this time.
I pushed the brake, hit the power button, the LCD display lit and flashed a few times, no ready light, I tried this several times with the same results, LCD display would dim when you hit the brake but no ready. During these trys, the unit did not ant to shut down when the power button was pushed. Finally, it beeped but I still did not get a ready, the next time it beeped and went to ready, it worked okay after that. I took it to Toyota and showed the Video to the service people, the car was there two days and the service manager blamed the brake again, evidently the service people did not tell him about the video. Here in Ohio, after three times with no repair it can be considered a lemon."

[Scott]

Scot, батериите нямат ли определен брой цикли разряд/заряд?
На лаптопа ми /LiIon/, ако не се лъжа са 300.
В сметките ти има и по-икономичен вариант - ако си на един заряд разстояние до работа, зареждаш "служебен" ток през деня и отново вкъщи, т.е. минаваш 2 пъти повече за същите пари

Да, имат, но броя цикли зависи от 'дълбочината на разряд (DoD) и от типа на батерията.
Литиево-кобалтните (LiCoO2) и Литиево-Мангановите (LiMn2O4) като в лаптопите имат около 300 цикъла докато капацитета им падне на 80%, а Литиево-железните (LiFePO4) - над 2000. За електро-автомобили се използват предимно Литиево-железни батерии заради големия брой цикли и сравнително безопасната работа, сравнена с другите материали. Но ако забелязваш линка към сайта на Enginer дава живот 5-6 г за тези пакети, т.е. не е много рентабилно. Оригиналните батерии на Приус са Никелови и там големия брой цикли се постига защото работят в много тесен диапазон заряд-разряд, което пък ги прави невъзможни за дълги преходи 'само на батерии'. А бе откъдето и да го гледаш, положението с хибридите е временно, ами дано доживея да покарам електромобил - сега точно работя над такава батерия. biggrin.gif

[Rudy]

аз ще ти покажа само няколко картинки: (една картина казва повече от 1000 думи, пък било то copy/paste), пък ти може да ровиш колкото си искаш за негативни мнения на собственици:

[zi_zi_top]

... А бе откъдето и да го гледаш, положението с хибридите е временно, ами дано доживея да покарам електромобил - сега точно работя над такава батерия. biggrin.gif

В Израел има една компания Better Place начело с Шаем Агасси, която е на същото мнение и работи в същата насока.
Тя осъществява проекта за внедряване в страната на електроавтомобили на базата на станции за обмен на заредени акумулаторни батерии.
Прототипите на автомобилите са изработени на базата на Nissan Rouge и на Renault Megane. Публикувани са и подробни правила за обмен на акумулаторите и тяхното презареждане.

http://www.betterplace.com/

П.С. Убеден съм, че това е бъдещето.